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turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.

#1 2008-11-29 22:51:06
turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
artfuldodga
Super Power User
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digsby team has to step up and fix what it has broken. see the following topics

http://forum.digsby.com/viewtopic.php?id=2981
http://forum.digsby.com/viewtopic.php?id=3011
http://forum.digsby.com/viewtopic.php?id=2947
http://forum.digsby.com/viewtopic.php?id=2958

now don't get me wrong, i love using digsby, but i can't have friends of mine installing your software, with these kinds of shady practices going on... sorry.

they wanted to try your app, wondering if it used less memory being all it one, it does... but i still had to tell them to wait.


Last edited by artfuldodga (2008-11-30 05:14:30)


#2 2008-11-30 00:43:06
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
Antiuniverse
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Sneaking in functionality with an automatic update, whereby every five minutes I don't touch my computer, a random java process starts trying to connect to the internet is NOT THE WAY YOU DO THINGS.

I sat here for an hour trying to figure out what was going on, I was convinced I'd picked up some kind of lameware crap somehow, despite how careful I am. Turns out I was right.

It's not really that hard to be forthcoming about this stuff, is it? I would have sooner paid you for the program. But no, now I'm just falling back to one of the numerous alternatives, because you betrayed the trust of your users.


Digsby Developer wrote:

We are testing it right now and if we keep it, info will be added to the TOS or FAQ.

Is that some kind of bad joke? You don't put it on my computer now and ask questions later.

EDIT: Slightly less vitriol.


Last edited by Antiuniverse (2008-11-30 01:39:51)


#3 2008-11-30 14:13:06
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
Hidari
Member
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Thanks for the extra information, after reading what was linked, I'll be dropping digsby like a large brick strapped to my back while swimming. I decided that the ads on the installer weren't too bad since you can use a work around but the fact that they're using my processing power without any obvious warning or notification? Screw that..


This is some sick pathetic joke.. they only care about money, they don't give a rats ass about the users and haven't made ANY effort what so ever to prove that they do. I've yet to see a single person of the digsby staff make a reply that didn't sound like an absolute BS excuse for making income.

If they need money that bad they should ask for donations, it's a good product if you take out the extra crud that was smeared on and I'm sure many people would donate a generous bit to keep it afloat if they really were in a financial bind.


Last edited by Hidari (2008-12-01 09:57:22)


#4 2008-12-01 10:50:44
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
mike
Digsby Developer
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Antiuniverse wrote:

every five minutes I don't touch my computer, a random java process starts trying to connect to the internet

feel free to turn it off

Hidari wrote:

they don't give a rats ass about the users and haven't made ANY effort what so ever to prove that they do.

this is ridiculous. i (and the rest of the team) have been working nearly 60 hour weeks for over a year fixing bugs and adding features without asking a single thing in return until we added SOMETHING that would hopefully make us some money without affecting the actual product. don't try to tell me that i don't care about making digsby the best experience for our users.



#5 2008-12-01 11:10:00
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
ssechaud
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@Mike: Can you tell us how to turn it off please? There are not options visable under the preferences menu to do this.

I love Digsby, but running programs on users pc's without asking them first is really unprofessional and inconsiderate. I'm really surprised you think this is acceptable, wouldn't you be concerned if you downloaded a chat program, yet in the background without your knowledge it is using your resources for something else completely?

I understand your need to generate funds to cover the costs of the project, but this risks alienating your user base by breaking their trust. I hope to hear back from you soon on this.



#6 2008-12-01 11:20:08
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
mike
Digsby Developer
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ssechaud wrote:

@Mike: Can you tell us how to turn it off please?

help menu -> support digsby -> next to "Help Digsby conduct research" click "Disable".



#7 2008-12-01 11:23:57
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
ssechaud
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I'm using Digsby build 18269, and there is no "Support Digsby", under the help menu is the following items:

Documentation
Support Forums
Submit Bug Report
Suggest A Feature
Invite Your Friends
About Digsby

How about that...



#8 2008-12-01 11:34:05
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
mike
Digsby Developer
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if you're on 18269 you have nothing to turn off. the plura processing thingy was introduced in 18814. you should submit a bug report about your client not updating. after that, if you'd like to install the new version with bug fixes (and, yes, the thing that's "omg stealin my megahertz"), the latest installer is at http://update.digsby.com/install/digsby_setup.exe



#9 2008-12-01 11:49:51
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
ssechaud
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Come on Mike, don't play down the blatant rudeness of this issue.

Are you really going to be so arrogant as to use sarcasm to criticise those you have offended by taking this liberty of not asking for concent to use our computers as a testing ground for whatever you see fit?

Digsby is turning out to be a top class chat client, and I have been growing to love it, but this is not the kind of professional attitude you come to expect from developers working seriously on a project.



#10 2008-12-01 12:11:06
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
mike
Digsby Developer
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Sorry, but it's hard to take some of these complaints seriously when you didn't even have component that you're complaining about.

is it really so much to ask people to let 10% of their CPU be used while they're away from their computer to conduct research that also makes us money? Oh yea, and you can turn it off if you have bandwidth or power limitations or can't stand the sound of your case fans. i should also mention the fact that it could be the difference between this program being continuously updated and worked on or fading off into the great /dev/null of the tubes.

and speaking of blatant rudeness i think if you look through this and related threads, a tiny bit of sarcasm from me is the least of it.



#11 2008-12-01 12:25:58
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
Aaron
Digsby Developer
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Well, I wasn't going to step into this but it looks like this is just going to keep escalating if I don't say something. 

Mike, ssechaud issue isn't that we're running the processing to make money, the problem is we didn't announce it when we pushed it, which we should have and I have no idea how it slipped through the changes list in release 18814, it should have been there.

ssechaud, don't take Mikes response personally, he just took deep offense to the "they only care about money, they don't give a rats ass about the users" jab, as I'm sure all of us developers who saw it did.  We care a lot about our users, in fact we keep open communication with anyone who wants to speak with us personally in #Digsby on irc.freenode.net and take complaints such as this very seriously. So please don't insinuate we don't care.




I'm the one that draws pretty pictures on the screen! (AKA a GUI Dev)
Digsbies.org is currently semi-functional, hopefully it will rise again! Stay tuned!
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#12 2008-12-01 13:00:35
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
ericz120689
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To tell you the truth, I don't mind that Digsby is using my computer to do research that'll benefit them.  It's the least I can do to thank the Digsby team for making this product free and functional.

While I do see both sides of the argument, I do think that the Digsby team should mention something about this research while installing the product.  Other than that, I don't think anyone could argue anymore.



#13 2008-12-01 14:39:24
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
steve
Digsby Developer
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Please see the long comment at the bottom of the first page of the below linked forum thread and leave comments there so we can merge the discussion:

http://forum.digsby.com/viewtopic.php?id=2994

As for the above discussion, it seems to be a matter of the PR surrounding the issue and not the issue itself.  We are still just testing it and if we decide to keep it we will announce it and add it to the TOS for all to see.  We are proud of our product and if we can keep it free and ad-free while generating a profit we will be proud of that as well.



#14 2008-12-01 16:46:38
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
Hidari
Member
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Felt this should be on this thread as it's unrelated to the other thread.

I wanted to simply apologize for any rude remarks I made earlier. I was in a bad mood and then read a few things and it set off a spark. The association caused by the new installer making digsby seem like a very questionable piece of software didn't help. Though it did in the end get a response from dev's which I'm glad about because it proves me wrong all the more.


this is ridiculous. i (and the rest of the team) have been working nearly 60 hour weeks for over a year fixing bugs and adding features without asking a single thing in return until we added SOMETHING that would hopefully make us some money without affecting the actual product. don't try to tell me that i don't care about making digsby the best experience for our users.

Thank you for proving me wrong.

Anyway, I hope you can accept my apology for my rude posts.



#15 2008-12-04 11:08:03
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
rage77
New member
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If my "surplus CPU-power" was stealthily used for say curing cancer, I wouldn't have minded at all. It is now being used for commercial purposes. Hell, I could even contribute to some obscure company to develop some really nasty substances designed to be used in war as bio-weapons. I don't know, and you don't know and Digsby doesn't know either.

The fact that this just happened to install in an update without as much as a word and that it's turned on as default... well it's just too much. I'm taking a break from Digsby. I'll pop in once in a while and see how you're all doing and see if there's been more nasty surprises or less and then decide on how to go.

Thanks for this time and good luck - to everyone.
*signed out, uninstalled and scanned for malware*



#16 2008-12-05 08:59:59
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
LoudNoiseElitist
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How about you guys listen to the people who will be using your product and paying the bills, instead of getting mad at them when they say something?



#17 2008-12-05 13:59:03
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
Hidari
Member
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LoudNoiseElitist wrote:

How about you guys listen to the people who will be using your product and paying the bills, instead of getting mad at them when they say something?

The only times I've seen them get mad are at times when they deserve to be mad. Can you really blame someone for getting angry after taking flack from others while smiling? Everyone has a breaking point. It's obvious they're listening otherwise they wouldn't be actively searching for a better way to generate income without irritating the users.



#18 2008-12-05 16:20:20
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
Boofo
Power User
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You are all missing the point. It never has been about making income off of Digsby. It has been about the sneakiness behind how they have introduced it and not said anything about it unitl they are called on it. If they were to be up front about what they are doing from the beginning, I'm sure they would ger a lot more useful feedback on it and not so many of the hateful remarks.




chmod a+x /bin/laden -- Allows anyone the permission to execute /bin/laden
#19 2008-12-05 18:12:59
Re: turned a friend away from installing digsby today, i didn't want to.
steve
Digsby Developer
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@Boofo: You are 100% right and I personally apologize for this.  Everyone who has participates on this forum and follows our progress knows that we are very user-oriented and our entire development cycle is based off your suggestions and feedback.  The reason this happened is that we just started testing this with a portion of users and I didn't want to announce it with a big blog post until we decided to keep.  The train of thought was that I didn't want to create a giant discussion over it until we we were sure that it was going to become a long term part of Digsby. The fuss ended up being over the fact that it wasn't announced right away rather than the revenue models themselves and this was certainly a lesson learned. It will not happen again.



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